Prometheus Council

[Randy]

I have been trying to figure out what local plants are edible/usable. It was difficult to find information on the net that was helpful, because I cannot take my computer with me into the field to id stuff. I finally ran across a couple books at a nearby library that were specific to my region, and gave medicinal and edible plants, complete with great pics! It took some searching, but they can be found!
I have come to the conclusion that there is not a lot of naturally available food that would sustain one in my area. Agriculture would be a necessity....which leads me to survival gardens. Gene and I have talked about these before....anyone cultivate any?
For those who don't know, survival gardens are gardens planted in inconspicuous places, consisting of plants that will grow naturally in the area, that could be harvested in times of need. The key is that it is hidden, or at least not advertised. Kind of like encouraging nature to grow what you may need someday.
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-Randy

[Randy]

Gozgal, you grow green things.....any tips for the rest of us on growing gardens in general, container gardens, veggies, etc?
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-Randy

[Shu]

[Randy]

So....experience is the best teacher in this case, too, eh?

I didn't know you had horticulture experience, Shu. Feel free to chime in any words of wisdom!
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-Randy

[Del]

Hmm.......

I wish I had some ground to grow stuff in... it will be late in the game by the time I get a chance for hands on!

[Gozgal]

Sorry I've been on inactive duty while company has been here ;)

I would say... Imagine that you have no access to chemicals, a plentiful water source, or a store from which to buy useful gadgets. Experiment to see which plants thrive in your environment without these things. Learn about companion planting. Study up on which edible plants store well. I have lived in the southeast and now in the west and the rules are completely different in both places so it's important to find out for yourself. Books are great but there's nothing like experience (yeah, I made that up myself ;) ) For the past 3 years I have been trying to collect heirloom seeds and at least plant enough to collect seeds for the next year. This is very important as most of the commercial seeds you can pick up at Walmart and the like are hybrid and most likely will not set seeds - and if they do they may not be true to the parent stock. If you live in an area where you can't have a garden to speak of, find a friend who does have some land or maybe start a community garden (with strict rules that it be organic and heirloom!). I find that most people are intrigued with plants and growing their own food, even if it's only a handful of peas or a bunch of carrots. I have been thinking about the concept of a survival garden and may send some of my sun chokes (aka jerusalem artichoke) out to the back 40 to see if they can make it without my tender care. I am also planning on studying up on what the Indians in this area ate. I'm sure they had gardens but there must have been lots of foraging also. I do know that they derived quite a bit of nutrition from pine trees. The problem is that we have done to plants/vegetables what dog breeders have done... refined them so much for their "prettiness" that we've made them weak. Vegetables and desirable plants are basically weeds that we decided were useful or tasty...which means that they once existed without any help from us. I've let my first garden go "wild" basically to see what would volunteer up from last year. I had a tomato, many of the onions set seeds, tons of turnip greens, and mega tons of cilantro/coriander (which is probably why it's such a popular southwestern spice). I also had some corn come back up but it's such a nitrogen stealer and water hog that I may have to look into finding some actual maize. Anyway, if anyone wants to come visit and check out the garden, drop me a line. I have some actual weeds that need pulling ;) .
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If man is allowed to destroy what we need he will soon have to pay with his life for his greed.
- "Tapestry", Don McLean

[Shu]

Your garden sounds delightful Gozgal. I would love to see some pictures of it.

[Del]

[Gozgal]

Email me (gozgal@aol.com) and I'd be glad to send pics.
_________________
If man is allowed to destroy what we need he will soon have to pay with his life for his greed.
- "Tapestry", Don McLean

[ajm]

Good info gozgal,

I too grow vegetables at my place. We only have about 8 acres but I still go out and plant every year. I would like to say something for everyone though. Go ahead and try the seeds from fruits and vegetables from wal-mart etc.

I have been farming since I was knee high to a grasshopper, thanks to my grandparents (farmers in west oklahoma) and my father (who grew a garden every year living in Dallas ( just a couple of rows in the backyard).

Got off track there sorry. My point is that I too always thought that seed from a grocery store etc would not produce viable seeds... I was soooooo wrong. My wife wanted to try anyway and I was frustrated with telling her it was a waste, she did it anyway and they grew! Canteloupe, Peach tree, watermelon, potatoes, squash, and carrots; all grew from seeds pulled out of vegetables from wal-mart and grocery stores. We are going to experiment next year again with others and save all tha seeds to relpant.

My advice try now to see what you cab grow from the grocery store and start building up your seed stores.

[Gozgal]

Oh definitely buy grocery store seeds! I did not mean to imply that you shouldn't - just that most of them are hybrids. I have learned to identify the names of the traditional and heirloom vegetables so I do purchase quite a few from the Mart that shall remain nameless I have just found that the heirloom types are tastier and more likely to reproduce year after year - which eliminates a lot of trial and error. I also enjoy supporting the businesses that sell these seeds rather than...that place. I find that most are not any more expensive than store bought and you will discover some interesting varieties while shopping for them. Also, as far as using seeds saved from vegetables, some stay true - such as the squashes and melons. I am very leery of the genetic manipulation that goes on these days and also .....who know exactly where some of the food is coming from? But I do say.... do what you can. Anything is better than nothing! Experiment while you can. You certainly don't want to get stuck with a bunch of "suicidal" seeds (seeds that kill their own embryos and thus do not reproduce....yes, they are out there).
_________________
If man is allowed to destroy what we need he will soon have to pay with his life for his greed.
- "Tapestry", Don McLean

[ajm]

I should have been more specific. I meant the seeds inside the vegetables for sale in the produce department. Some will seed, the trick is to see if those seeds will seed, but logically they should. We will see and I will post again sometime around spring about the experiment.

I agree with you though I prefer to buy my seeds from a seed store or a local farmer than from... shall we say more commercial places.

[Gozgal]

Yes, logically they should. However, honestly, most of our commercial vegetables and fruits are hybrids - bred for transportability mostly. You may get a plant to sprout from the seed but chances are it won't be true to the parent. That being said....if you are in a starvation situation, plant whatever the heck you can. My only issue is that hybrids can "pollute" heirlooms. So far none of my neighbors have shown interest in gardening so my heirlooms stay relatively safe. You never know where the insects are visiting though. Our community abounds with apple orchards so the local bees are making tremendous rounds (I would imagine).

Genetically modified foods are a tender issue with me. For thousands of years farmers have been saving the best seed and creating fantastic breeds naturally. Now you have these companies that do it in a way that tosses all that out the window. They are strictly in it for current product, not longevity or refining of the species. I worry that it will doom our food supply, or put it in the hands of a select few... "Buy our seed or starve!". We need to be able to produce crops year after year after year. Experimentation is fantastic ajm .... watch carefully to see if the new product stays true to the parent. If you do have heirlooms of the same sort of plant, keep the heirlooms covered with net and pollinate them yourself. Which is actually a good skill to develop. If we are trapped underground with grow lights and no pollinating insects...it will be up to us.
_________________
If man is allowed to destroy what we need he will soon have to pay with his life for his greed.
- "Tapestry", Don McLean

[ajm]

You know, all the years I have been farming I have never polinated myself?! How do you do it?

[Gozgal]

You know, if I were a different kind of gal I could give an x-rated response....

Read up on the reproductive parts of a flower. When a bee or other insect pollinates a plant it's because they are harvesting something desirable to them and their body parts accidentally pick up the pollen and transport it to the female/receptive part of another flower. Some plants, such as corn, rely on the wind (which is why they tell you to plant two rows or more). Also, on corn, the pollen comes from a totally different location (up at the top) than the part that needs to be fertilized - the tassel at the top of the emerging ear. Basically, it's an exchange of pollen. When I worked at an orchid nursery it was very clear how the process worked. There were very large pollen capsules which clearly were meant to adhere to a sticky portion at the center of the flower. This is also how growers can manipulate varieties and also why you should be careful when planting like varieties close to each other. Using corn as an example again... you should not plant corn you wish to grow for fresh cobs near popcorn types. One year my grandmother planted her zucchini right next to the spaghetti squash and the seeds she saved came up the next year as and interesting striped spaghetti squash hybrid. It can be fun if you have a goal in mind and are looking to improve some characteristic. I suppose it's much like dog breeding...

edited to add: I guess I didn't really answer the question
Like I said, read up on plant reproductive parts. Basically you are manually transporting the pollen to the "girl" part. On most plants that flower it's fairly evident. I really haven't had to do it very much though next year, if the grasshoppers invade again, I will probably cover my plants with netting and have to pollinate by hand. With corn, you would shake the pollen from the top "spray" onto some paper and then sprinkle it onto the corn tassels. This year the grasshoppers actually nibbled the new tassels and I'm finding that the ears are only about 20% filled out.
_________________
If man is allowed to destroy what we need he will soon have to pay with his life for his greed.
- "Tapestry", Don McLean